24/07/2008 17:55:39 adrian Some advice please on choosing a new helmet. I read the pdf of MSA standards for helmets, in the frequent questions section, but I don't think it mentions anything specific about full face helmets. Can I use an open faced BS6658 type A in a MGF with the top down?

24/07/2008 18:46:00 Tim Guy Open face helmets with the top down is a bit of a mute point. Many of the circuits say you need a full face but its a rule I've never seen enforced. We bought open face and have never been refused. If we ever are, I shall simply put the top up for that day ;) I believe the rule is more to do with the possibility of flying debris than anything else.

24/07/2008 19:13:30 adrian [I]"We bought open face and have never been refused. If we ever are, I shall simply put the top up for that day"[/I] Very good point. I would much prefer an open face, so your advice has cemented my intentions. However, it appears that the MSA pdf also applies to all competitive events, and is very explicit about the required BS standards, with no mention of requiring a full face. Perhaps they really aren't required ever! Also, have you ever seen helmets scrutineered for BS standards at any track day? (I'm looking for a £10 helmet to match my £10 head!!)

24/07/2008 19:55:08 Tim Guy Track days are not competitive events. Competition scrutineering can be quite rigorous. MGot do insist on helmets to BS6658 type A for track days.

24/07/2008 20:24:09 Stu I've been using an open face for a number of years now.. A recent outing at Brands which is a track owned by MSV I was able to use an open face only because MGOT and LOT have there own PLI insurance. If we had of been using MSV's they do now stipulate a full face. Worth considering that in the future once in a blue moon you could (as I) be asked to hire a full face for the day but thankfully so far this has not occurred for me personally I prefer an open face mainly as it enables meet to communicate easily with pax as i often take newbies and prospective tracksters out for a ride so they can see what they have been missing...:D Hope to see you on track soon Stu

25/07/2008 18:47:20 Dave [quote=adrian] Also, have you ever seen helmets scrutineered for BS standards at any track day? (I'm looking for a £10 helmet to match my £10 head!!)[/quote]The answer is no I haven't although we always recommend the standards quoted in the MSA Blue Book. You should be able to get an open face BS standard helmet for around £75. A closed face is more expensive, probably around £125.

26/07/2008 16:41:59 adrian It seems obvious that in a collision, a motorcylist's head is subjected to as much damage as a car driver's head, probably more. The old UK standard for road legal motorcycle helmets ( BS 6658 Type A) has been replaced with the new european standard ( ECE 22.05 ) which BSI accepted in 2002 is " as good as, or better". Is the MSA simply being obtuse about refusing the new standard, or is there genuinely a difference? Ironically, the MSA have created a situation where I would rather buy an older second hand helmet, because the old model has the BS 6658 label, whilst the new helmet (same brand and type) has the ECE 22.05 label!

26/07/2008 23:15:13 Tim Guy Now I might be wrong about this but I believe the standards for m/c helmets are silent regarding fire protection / retarding materials. Fire is obviously a far more likely scenario in a car, its hard to get trapped in a bike ;).

27/07/2008 17:10:00 Dave [quote=adrian]... Is the MSA simply being obtuse about refusing the new standard, or is there genuinely a difference?... [/quote] Probably both! I did hear some sort of story about testing wasn't rigorous enough with the EC standards, but ... I don't know. We simply err on the side of caution - recommend the MSA blue book and then leave it to individuals to make their own minds up. If and when the circuits decide to write something into their circuit-hire contracts we'll obviously take a different view.

28/07/2008 12:46:28 Ralph My understanding is that to achieve the BS standard the manufacturer has to regularly subject their helmets to destructive testing. To achieve the ECE standard there is no such requirement.