06/12/2005 22:34:03 Jennie The following link is to our draft terms and conditions. They bear a striking resemblance to Lotus on Track's T&Cs as a starting point for discussion. [url]http://mgot.clients.ukwebsystems.com/t&cs[/url] Can you all have a look through and see if you agree with them? I suspect we may want to amend the cancellation fee figures and credit cancellation terms, but it may be worth leaving them as they are - we can always be more lenient on a case-by-case basis if funds allow. Any comment? :)

07/12/2005 18:25:40 Rob Bell Nice one jennie :) Okay, had a quick look - raises the following questions: [b]We accept no responsibility for loss arising due to a booking not being guaranteed.[/b] How is a booking guaranteed? Not sure what is meant by this? [b]Bookings cancelled within two weeks of an event are strictly non-refundable.[/b] This isn't the way we've been operating up until now is it? I think that Dave's been a good deal more flexible than that. I've no problem with taking this line, but is this a committee decision point? [b]Although MGs on Track will endeavour to honour all bookings and events MGs on Track reserve the right to alter in any way or cancel any event. If this becomes necessary MGs on Track will endeavour to inform booked customers as soon, as is practically possible. [/b] Need to mention re-imbursement? [b]Individual events are governed by rules, regulations and safety regulations given in advance to all customers, which must be agreed to. MGs on Track reserve the right to eject and refuse access to any customer found to be in breach of those rules. [/b] Are we sure that we want to refer to our members as 'customers'? [b]The fact that information, products or services are shown on this site does not necessarily mean that the product and services that we provide are suitable for you. It is your responsibility to check this out. Some of the services on this site may not be available or may have changed. (For instance - all vehicles must be able to obtain an MOT to enter an event. If there are changes to MOT regulations which effect a vehicle previously cleared for events, it is your obligation to ensure it meets the new ones). [/b] Not sure what having an MoT has to do with the first part of the sentence? Overall, great stuff - and certainly a good start in getting the ball rolling! :D

09/12/2005 14:46:01 Dave In general I'm very happy with these Ts&Cs. They always need to be the harshest situation allowing you to relax them for specific situations. [QUOTE=Rob Bell][b]We accept no responsibility for loss arising due to a booking not being guaranteed.[/b] How is a booking guaranteed? Not sure what is meant by this?[/QUOTE]Yes, I'm not 100% sure either. [QUOTE=Rob Bell][b]Bookings cancelled within two weeks of an event are strictly non-refundable.[/b] This isn't the way we've been operating up until now is it? I think that Dave's been a good deal more flexible than that. I've no problem with taking this line, but is this a committee decision point?[/QUOTE]We've generally been operating on a non-refundable basis [b]regardless[/b] of when the cancellation occurs. It's just that we've always said that we'll try to resell a cancelled place via our reserve list and refund the fee if we can do this. Obviously, the more time we have to do this the easier it is to resell and therefore potentially refund. I'd like refunds only to be automatically given if cancellation is more like four or even six weeks prior to the event. I'd have no problem spelling out our resell/refund attempt in our Ts&Cs, as long as it is clear that, ultimately, the booking is non-refundable. [QUOTE=Rob Bell][b]Although MGs on Track will endeavour to honour all bookings and events MGs on Track reserve the right to alter in any way or cancel any event. If this becomes necessary MGs on Track will endeavour to inform booked customers as soon, as is practically possible. [/b] Need to mention re-imbursement?[/QUOTE]Yes, we need to be clear whether we will re-imburse. We need to check our contracts, but I think that we'd probably not have to pay the circuit hire fee if the circuit cancelled on us in advance e.g. snowed in days before. However, I think we'd get no rebate if a day was rained/snowed off once it had started. Maybe all we need to do in the Ts&Cs is say that we will re-imburse only if the circuit does the same for us. [QUOTE=Rob Bell][b]Individual events are governed by rules, regulations and safety regulations given in advance to all customers, which must be agreed to. MGs on Track reserve the right to eject and refuse access to any customer found to be in breach of those rules. [/b] Are we sure that we want to refer to our members as 'customers'?[/QUOTE]True, slight slip of the translation from Easytrackease to Lotusese to MGese i think :-) [QUOTE=Rob Bell][b]The fact that information, products or services are shown on this site does not necessarily mean that the product and services that we provide are suitable for you. It is your responsibility to check this out. Some of the services on this site may not be available or may have changed. (For instance - all vehicles must be able to obtain an MOT to enter an event. If there are changes to MOT regulations which effect a vehicle previously cleared for events, it is your obligation to ensure it meets the new ones). [/b] Not sure what having an MoT has to do with the first part of the sentence?[/QUOTE]Yes, they are slightly different points I guess. 1. You must decide whether our event is suitable for you - not us 2. You must comply with all regulations as they exist at the time - not in the past.

08/01/2006 14:08:26 Dave Jennie, Can you take this to the next step please? A second draft based on the comments to date. Then let's have a final round of comments before the Committee meeting where we can adopy them.

11/01/2006 12:28:01 Jennie [QUOTE=Dave]Jennie, Can you take this to the next step please? A second draft based on the comments to date. Then let's have a final round of comments before the Committee meeting where we can adopy them.[/QUOTE] Sorry Dave, I can't take this one forward ahead of the next meeting. Can someone else pick this up please? :)

24/01/2006 18:23:14 Steve Hill Revised Ts and Cs are in the attachment. The author invites and welcomes your comments. The author reserves the right to reject or completly ignore any such comments and will not be held responsible for any injured pride which may occur. :)

25/01/2006 14:42:48 Dave Looks good to me Steve. I've just got a few typo corrections for when we're ready to publish.

25/01/2006 16:26:23 Steve Hill We will need some additional Ts & Cs to cover Trax Credits. Need to agree definition fully first.

25/01/2006 17:34:57 Tim [QUOTE=Steve Hill]We will need some additional Ts & Cs to cover Trax Credits. Need to agree definition fully first.[/QUOTE] I don't think we will be able to wheel out the trax credits until we have substantially resolved how they intend to work. I should have some more thoughts for the next committee so I think we will just have to make an amendment the the T&C's when they're rolled out. Tim

26/01/2006 12:28:06 Rob Bell Looks good to me too Steve - as Dave says, just a couple of minor typos to correct, and it is ready to go. Trax Credits seems to have become a fundamental part of MGoT - so I am inclined to say that there is a need to nail the details of the scheme. Whether the terms and conditions should wait for this is another question. I don't think that the terms and conditions should wait. Define Trax Credits as a simple reimbursement scheme in the short term, until the full scheme, in all its glorious technicolor (TM), can be rolled out.

04/02/2006 10:04:08 norman Peeps Having a more thorough read of the T&Cs while working on the web page I noticed this:- [QUOTE]All images, film and recorded sound of an event remain the property of MGs on Track and may not be used commercially without prior written permission of MGs on Track.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure about the legality of this. If a photographer wanted to take and sell photos of the event I would think he would have the legal right to do so. Thinking of Caroline here as I don't sell my pics (but am thinking about doing so). We also have commercial photographers at some of the events and they certainly won't give up copyright and ownership. Discuss...

04/02/2006 18:15:42 Dave [QUOTE=norman]Peeps Having a more thorough read of the T&Cs while working on the web page I noticed this:- I'm not sure about the legality of this. If a photographer wanted to take and sell photos of the event I would think he would have the legal right to do so. Thinking of Caroline here as I don't sell my pics (but am thinking about doing so). We also have commercial photographers at some of the events and they certainly won't give up copyright and ownership. Discuss...[/QUOTE]I imagine that this has arrived from our plagiaristic use of LoT's Ts&Cs, which in turn come from Easytrack's. However, I'm sure that you're right Norman - probably no legal foot to stand on. Which begs the question as to why it is there. I'd guess that it is just to have some position from which to challenge any blatant mis-use of file or pictures. I know that the circuits have similar clauses in their contracts and some circuits require you to sign a disclaimer. Anyone got any legal friends to get an opinion?

05/02/2006 12:47:09 Jennie [QUOTE=Dave]I imagine that this has arrived from our plagiaristic use of LoT's Ts&Cs, which in turn come from Easytrack's. [/quote] Probably. :o LoT also have the following clause in their indemnity forms: [quote]5. I agree that any images, moving or still, that I or any person attending as my guest, make at the event remain the property of ET/LOT and are for my own personal use only. If any of these images are used in any commercial enterprise, publication, broadcast or any other form of public media I agree to pay ET/LOT the sum of £25’000 per instance and any fee levied by the circuit operators.[/quote] It's been queried on the LoT forum and Paul says it's there to cover LoT against getting sued by the circuits as LoT have the same clause in contracts with most circuits. So if anyone sells a pic and the circuit turn round and demand payment LoT are covered. So, if we sign up to similar clauses from circuits, we may need to keep this clause in our T&Cs. :confused:

05/02/2006 12:50:37 Dave [QUOTE=Jennie]Probably. :o LoT also have the following clause in their indemnity forms: It's been queried on the LoT forum and Paul says it's there to cover LoT against getting sued by the circuits as LoT have the same clause in contracts with most circuits. So if anyone sells a pic and the circuit turn round and demand payment LoT are covered. So, if we sign up to similar clauses from circuits, we may need to keep this clause in our T&Cs. :confused:[/QUOTE]As I thought Jennie. BTW - nothing wrong with plagiarism :)

06/02/2006 09:40:37 Steve Hill Revised doc to include payment in Pounds Sterling only.